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Post by pigletphoenix on Dec 5, 2023 17:01:22 GMT
Picked this up recently, haven't played it for well over twenty years. Does MerseysideBlue still do the Carlisle United player attributes? Johnny Allen: (Finishing - 20) Anyway, I was shocked at how dumbed down it has become. Who cares about the "match engine" graphically representing the game? Back in the day it was all about attributes, statistics and monitoring the data in real time to inform your in game decisions. This aspect of the simulation appears to be lost. Now all you have "in game" is a single ethereal player rating for each player and a heart symbol. Where have the "live" in game stats gone, the actual fitness %, all the numbers required to inform tactical decisions in play?
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Post by letsboogie on Dec 5, 2023 17:10:16 GMT
Ever kissed a girl?
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Post by pigletphoenix on Dec 5, 2023 17:12:58 GMT
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Post by bstandbob on Dec 5, 2023 17:24:34 GMT
Haven't played it since it was Championship Manager in the late 90s, The game was basically a flashing bar in the middle of the screen that got faster the closer a team came to . Was always about building the team, developing players and selling them on for me. Doubt I would enjoy the newer versions.
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Post by pigletphoenix on Dec 5, 2023 17:28:14 GMT
Haven't played it since it was Championship Manager in the late 90s, The game was basically a flashing bar in the middle of the screen that got faster the closer a team came to . Was always about building the team, developing players and selling them on for me. Doubt I would enjoy the newer versions. I'm regretting my purchase. Will have to see if I can get under the hood and reconfigure it. If nothing else it's an interesting player database.
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Post by munchymagic on Dec 5, 2023 17:52:15 GMT
The original by Kevin Toms is ace on the ZX Spectrum.
The players are rated 1 to 5 so the trick was to have your reserves all at 1's and 2's as the computer randomly gave them all new skills at the end of the season so a 5 could dramatically drop to a 1 to scupper your chances of staying up after promotion.
There are no players with their arm totally covered in tattoos as it was made in 1982 in Basic and they are all tiny little stick men.
Saying that the reality is still there as you would have Moxon as a 5 in tier 4 and a 2 to 3 at best in the league above.
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orfc
Stephane Pounewatchy
Posts: 229
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Post by orfc on Dec 5, 2023 17:53:19 GMT
It peaked at cm 01/02 for me, you could rattle through a season in a couple of hours. Scout for youths, sign some nonleague gems, pick your best players, 442 or 433 and go!
Then it got all "what position should your left back take in a training session when you've got the ball in the opposition penalty box and it's raining on a Tuesday?" :-(
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Post by pigletphoenix on Dec 5, 2023 17:54:39 GMT
The original by Kevin Toms is ace on the ZX Spectrum. The players are rated 1 to 5 so the trick was to have your reserves all at 1's and 2's as the computer randomly gave them all new skills at the end of the season so a 5 could dramatically drop to a 1 to scupper your chances of staying up after promotion. There are no players with their arm totally covered in tattoos as it was made in 1982 in Basic and they are all tiny little stick men. Saying that the reality is still there as you would have Moxon as a 5 in tier 4 and a 2 to 3 at best in the league above. I well remember it. Peter Withe, Peter Barnes, Gary Shaw, Dave Watson, Mick Mills. Very limited player pool
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Post by ragingblue on Dec 5, 2023 19:27:01 GMT
Yes playing through the 23/24 currently and unfortunately not doing much better than Simmo as we’re sat in 18th.
Disabled transfers in the summer window so stuck with the current playing squad in real life but unfortunately without the imminent American money for the January.
Edmondson top scorer as my target man with Gibson best player overall.
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Post by munchymagic on Dec 5, 2023 19:28:42 GMT
The original by Kevin Toms is ace on the ZX Spectrum. The players are rated 1 to 5 so the trick was to have your reserves all at 1's and 2's as the computer randomly gave them all new skills at the end of the season so a 5 could dramatically drop to a 1 to scupper your chances of staying up after promotion. There are no players with their arm totally covered in tattoos as it was made in 1982 in Basic and they are all tiny little stick men. Saying that the reality is still there as you would have Moxon as a 5 in tier 4 and a 2 to 3 at best in the league above. I well remember it. Peter Withe, Peter Barnes, Gary Shaw, Dave Watson, Mick Mills. Very limited player pool I liked it so much I went and bought a load of others like 'On The Bench' as they were all about £1.99 a pop. Some were a bit hit and miss but it was good because they were limited and they only had to get the basics right to make it a good game - as I insisted on being Carlisle United I generally got sacked after one season as the players were all low skill ratings, echoing our time on the pitch in 1986/7. Brought back weird memories thinking of this really as I remember it was school times on a freezing cold Saturday sitting by the radiator to keep warm waiting an age as the Spectrum flashed up 'PLEASE WAIT - CLACULATING LEAGUE TABLE' playing on these manager games, in the background Radio Cumbria was on and you had to listen to whatever show they had on playing really unfashionable sixties stuff and every fifteen minutes they would cut to updates of Carlisle United playing away, generally getting humped big time. I reckon Tracksuit Manager was the best 8 bit managerial game by far, it was international football only but made in 1988 so it had a classic player pool, David Bardsley was always a good pick for some strange reason. The most recent I own and still play is Football Manager 97 on The old Sega Megadrive - you have to be Cambridge United to get anywhere on that one for some reason, players like Chris Leadbitter and Mike Cheetham in the team even though they had left in real life by then. Bit like ORFC said about the recent ones, I reckon far too many options and gimmicky stuff ruined later games for me.
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Post by blumineauxnoir on Dec 5, 2023 20:16:13 GMT
If you haven`t played the game in 20 years, then there is a lot that`s changed, but what will have you tearing your hair out, and quickly getting fed up - is players moaning like bitches every week, over everything !
There are 2 versions of the game, the full game, and a more stripped back version called Touch.
The core mechanics of the game are the same in both, with transfers/tactics, and the match engine.
In the full game, you have to deal with the players, and media, and despite people moaning about this being too frequent, the creators still won`t change it, or give you the option to remove it in the full game.
When was the last time you heard of a team having a mutiny, and 15 squad members questioning your ability, because you wouldn`t give the winger who`s had a few good games, a new contract ?
Get ready to deal with this at least once a fortnight !
And that forward, who only 3 months ago, signed a new 5 year deal ? Well, now he wants another new contract as he thinks he`s improved in the last 3 months, and is a better player deserving of a new deal.
You`d tell him to get stuffed, and just concentrate on his football wouldn`t you ?
Then here comes the rest of the squad, demanding you pay the man ! And another mutiny begins !
It`s a tiresome, and repetitive cycle of whinging, and I`ve found it so hard to stick with the more recent versions of the game, due to having to deal with petulant children, seemingly every other day.
Oh, and the wages will probably annoy you as well. CM01/02-FM08 and you could get the best players in the world signed up on long deals, for £100K or less a week. But on the latest versions, and if playing one of the top teams, then you can look forward to agents demanding £400K+ per week, and a host of add-ons, and bonuses that will have you shaking your head in disgust, how anyone could be worth that much money a week.
I don`t wholly blame the creators of the game, for all the issues in it, they try to make the game as realistic as they can, but it`s modern football that is largely to blame, for how much these games have changed over the years, and how to older fans especially, it`s a VERY different game of football, to the one we grew up with !
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Post by pigletphoenix on Dec 5, 2023 20:25:59 GMT
If I start a game proper I'll begin in the Conference and cut my teeth rather than parachute myself into the top level.
I suspect there will be more bread and butter stuff down there, plus fewer transfer window restrictions and annoying player crack.
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Post by blumineauxnoir on Dec 5, 2023 20:32:17 GMT
Before Championship Manager 93-94 came along, and got me addicted, there were 4 other games I played a LOT on the ZX Spectrum
The original Football Manager of course, and have fond memories of that game. Kevin Toms is still alive and well, and not long ago, he updated, and re-released the original of the game. If you search "Football Manager Kevin Toms" on youtube, you should find his channel, and the man himself, playing his updated game. He has a website, where you can buy it, as well.
Soccer Boss
"Scobie breaks a leg" oh no ! Spent a few years on this one as well, a lot more to it, than the original FM.
The Double - Loved this game SO much, I had a notepad, and pen, and would write down all the scores, and scorers, and attendances etc, played this one into the 90`s, and it had real player names as well. But then on a night out with some friends, we were all drunk, and talking about the old Spectrum/C64 games, and this one chap came out and said...
"Did you know The Double was entirely random ?"
NO ! No, I didn`t ! And thanks for ruining that game, and all the memories I have of it ! Don`t know if he was making it up or not, but for all the time I spent on that game, I felt cheated !
And Tracksuit Manager..
LOVED this one ! a proper International sim, with real names, and the first game I recall really getting into and editing, so I could play as West Germany in a World Cup. Think there was a sequel to this, but not sure if I even played it, let alone have it !
And Johnny Allan was a LEGEND on the CM games ! you could pick him up for £20K as another team, and he would bang them in. Think it was down to a single attribute that was overpowered for the game. Off The Ball I think it was.
His was close to 20 I recall, and in Div 4 he`d score for fun.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2023 20:40:36 GMT
I well remember it. Peter Withe, Peter Barnes, Gary Shaw, Dave Watson, Mick Mills. Very limited player pool I liked it so much I went and bought a load of others like 'On The Bench' as they were all about £1.99 a pop. Some were a bit hit and miss but it was good because they were limited and they only had to get the basics right to make it a good game - as I insisted on being Carlisle United I generally got sacked after one season as the players were all low skill ratings, echoing our time on the pitch in 1986/7. Brought back weird memories thinking of this really as I remember it was school times on a freezing cold Saturday sitting by the radiator to keep warm waiting an age as the Spectrum flashed up 'PLEASE WAIT - CLACULATING LEAGUE TABLE' playing on these manager games, in the background Radio Cumbria was on and you had to listen to whatever show they had on playing really unfashionable sixties stuff and every fifteen minutes they would cut to updates of Carlisle United playing away, generally getting humped big time. I reckon Tracksuit Manager was the best 8 bit managerial game by far, it was international football only but made in 1988 so it had a classic player pool, David Bardsley was always a good pick for some strange reason. The most recent I own and still play is Football Manager 97 on The old Sega Megadrive - you have to be Cambridge United to get anywhere on that one for some reason, players like Chris Leadbitter and Mike Cheetham in the team even though they had left in real life by then. Bit like ORFC said about the recent ones, I reckon far too many options and gimmicky stuff ruined later games for me. My favourite was Football Director on the Amstrad CPC464, wasted a lot of time on that game, I had tracksuit manager but I'm sure the game didn't save properly, so you had the cycle of qualifying for the euro's then the euros then the WCQ and the WCF's to do in a sitting, I used to leave the computer on and cover the red light with a book and hope it never got knocked off but invariably she would have hoovered the bedroom and pulled the plug out Still the uttimate game was the football manager on the Amiga 500, just the right age to be still young enough to lose days playing a machine, 92/93 I have FM23 atm but like already been mentioned all the crap of dealing with the tantrums becomes annoying, as well as the PR's and the inane questions that they ask a 1000 times.
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Post by blumineauxnoir on Dec 5, 2023 20:43:57 GMT
If you`d rather learn as you go, and want the game to be more challenging, then stop reading, and ignore what is below...
The best tactic to use, is the Gegenpress. People have been complaining it`s overpowered for years, but it`s the go-to tactic, to simply attack teams to death. But the lower the level you play as, you`ll find your players will struggle to cope with how physically demanding it is. That`s where which kind of players you sign come into it.
Ever since CM99-00, I`ve used the same strategy for signing players, and find it still works well in the modern versions.
Focus on the following 7 attributes, and you`ll have a team ready to run through walls for you, and keep going to the end, even when you`re 2-0 down, in the 85th minute. Even at Conference level, you should be looking at a minimum of 10 for these attributes, although going down to 8 for them is acceptable, as long as they don`t have any under 6.
Determination - This is how much they`ll try, so the lower this is, the quicker a player will give up, when losing.
Natural Fitness - This is pretty much how long a player can keep running, and also the higher it is, the better career he generally will have, and the higher his potential likely is. Not always a guarantee, mind !
Pace & Acceleration - Players with low numbers for these, will be seen as the weak link in your side, and if you can grab players in the lower leagues, with high numbers in both, then their poorer skills in other areas, won`t matter so much.
Pace & Acceleration are KING in the lower leagues.
Teamwork & Workrate - Good numbers in this, will keep them going, and like determination, will keep them trying as well.
Bravery - I won`t go lower than 8 for this, as they just won`t get stuck in, and when losing the ball, they just stop.
Focus your team, on players with good numbers for all of the above, and you`ll sail up the leagues quite quickly.
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