rocket
Stephane Pounewatchy
Posts: 165
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Post by rocket on Apr 17, 2024 17:49:32 GMT
See now I know your just arguing for the sake of it. How is going from 14th to 20th still being in a similar situation? The team in 14th when we were 20th on the 15th march had 45 points, the same total we finished the season with so had we performed better during that month we would have only needed 5 points from 10 games to stay up so we certainly weren't in a similar situation. In 15 games we picked up 9 points from the 18th February, no matter how you view it that's a manager that should be sacked during that run At the start of March we were 17th, two points above the relegation zone. By the end of March we were 21st but only in the relegation zone on goals scored (same goal difference as Tranmere). So start of the month - two points clear of relegation. End of the month, in the relegation zone on goal difference. That's slightly worse, not hugely different. Neither 17th or 21st are 14th. Mid Feb we were 14th, you stated that being 20th was a similar situation, it isn't
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Apr 17, 2024 17:51:13 GMT
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Post by pigletphoenix on Apr 17, 2024 17:51:13 GMT
So at which point would you have sacked Kavanagh in 13/14? You can't really quote "logic" if you can't answer that question. Why must it have been "clear"? If it was clear, easy question for you to answer. The previous regime acted to sack plenty of failing managers in their time, they never let one fail as hard as Simpson has failed.My views on the current situation are well known, but could you point me to the times Kavanagh saved us from relegation and then led us to promotion? Paul Simpson has been far more successful as manager of Carlisle United than Kavanagh (or any other manager in my lifetime). Was Mervyn Day manager in your lifetime? Was Mick Wadsworth manager in your lifetime? Was John Ward manager in your lifetime? Was Neil McDonald manager in your lifetime? Day & Wadsworth - trophies and promotions, no relegations. Ward & McDonald kept us in tier three. Even Greggy has a trophy and better record than Simpson in tier three. Simpson - two relegations, abysmal failure at tier three level. One trophy, 18 years ago or whenever it was. More successful than any other manager in your lifetime? Laughable.
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Apr 17, 2024 17:55:28 GMT
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Post by pigletphoenix on Apr 17, 2024 17:55:28 GMT
At the start of March we were 17th, two points above the relegation zone. By the end of March we were 21st but only in the relegation zone on goals scored (same goal difference as Tranmere). So start of the month - two points clear of relegation. End of the month, in the relegation zone on goal difference. That's slightly worse, not hugely different. Neither 17th or 21st are 14th. Mid Feb we were 14th, you stated that being 20th was a similar situation, it isn't Start of March, end of March. Similar situation as described. I don't remember very many supporters calling for Kavanagh's head at the time. In fact, as now, most were happy to let him continue and believed we'd be challenging for promotion the following season.
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rocket
Stephane Pounewatchy
Posts: 165
Likes: 108
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Post by rocket on Apr 17, 2024 17:59:42 GMT
Neither 17th or 21st are 14th. Mid Feb we were 14th, you stated that being 20th was a similar situation, it isn't Start of March, end of March. Similar situation as described. I don't remember very many supporters calling for Kavanagh's head at the time. In fact, as now, most were happy to let him continue and believed we'd be challenging for promotion the following season. Except I didn't say the start of March, I said the 15th Feb when we were 14th, to which you responded we were in a similar situation, but hey why let the facts get in the way of you trying to twist it the fact is from the 15th Feb to the end of the season we picked up 9 points from 15 games, he should have gone Mid March. I didn't want him as manager in the first place and the farcical record number of loans in a season we used that year just adds to how poor his decision making as a manger was. Just like Simmo should have gone early to mid January this season
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Apr 17, 2024 18:14:32 GMT
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Post by pigletphoenix on Apr 17, 2024 18:14:32 GMT
Similar situation from the start of March to the end of March.
I don't reckon it's likely we would've sacked the manager after beating Coventry in Northampton (which left us 14th, as you say).
There was only one more game before the end of Feb, wasn't there?
For the ten games between Feb 11th and the end of March we only lost four. Granted we only won two, but we were in touch with safety still. Form wasn't a disaster.
I'm fully with you in we shouldn't have appointed Kavanagh in the first place, but I don't reckon the Feb/March run of results was a clear an indication for a sacking as Simpson's efforts this season.
I respect your opinion if you think different.
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Post by moonie on Apr 17, 2024 18:35:48 GMT
My views on the current situation are well known, but could you point me to the times Kavanagh saved us from relegation and then led us to promotion? Paul Simpson has been far more successful as manager of Carlisle United than Kavanagh (or any other manager in my lifetime). Was Mervyn Day manager in your lifetime? Was Mick Wadsworth manager in your lifetime? Was John Ward manager in your lifetime? Was Neil McDonald manager in your lifetime? Day & Wadsworth - trophies and promotions, no relegations. McDonald and Ward kept us in tier three. Even Greggy has a trophy and better record than Simpson in tier three. Simpson - two relegations, abysmal failure at tier three level. One trophy, 18 years ago or whenever it was. More successful than any other manager in your lifetime? Laughable. Mervyn Day won a single promotion. Mick Wadsworth won a single promotion. John Ward bottled promotion. Neil McDonald's tactics away from home bottled a playoff berth. Wadsworth - one trophy; Day - one trophy. McDonald and Ward kept us in tier three with the team that Simpson built. They should have got us into the playoffs and promotion, respectively. Greggy oversaw our fall from playoff contenders to strugglers. Simpson - one relegation of his own accord, the other was the delayed but inevitable consequence of years of absolute chaos. He's won 3 times as many promotions with us than any other on your list, and more than the rest combined. Most successful Carlisle United manager in my lifetime, without doubt - and that's from somebody who publicly called for him to go a couple of months ago.
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Apr 17, 2024 18:40:52 GMT
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Post by pigletphoenix on Apr 17, 2024 18:40:52 GMT
Was Mervyn Day manager in your lifetime? Was Mick Wadsworth manager in your lifetime? Was John Ward manager in your lifetime? Was Neil McDonald manager in your lifetime? Day & Wadsworth - trophies and promotions, no relegations. McDonald and Ward kept us in tier three. Even Greggy has a trophy and better record than Simpson in tier three. Simpson - two relegations, abysmal failure at tier three level. One trophy, 18 years ago or whenever it was. More successful than any other manager in your lifetime? Laughable. Mervyn Day won a single promotion. Mick Wadsworth won a single promotion. John Ward bottled promotion. Neil McDonald's tactics away from home bottled a playoff berth. Wadsworth - one trophy; Day - one trophy. McDonald and Ward kept us in tier three with the team that Simpson built. They should have got us into the playoffs and promotion, respectively. Greggy oversaw our fall from playoff contenders to strugglers. Simpson - one relegation of his own accord, the other was the delayed but inevitable consequence of years of absolute chaos. He's won 3 times as many promotions with us than any other on your list, and more than the rest combined. Most successful Carlisle United manager in my lifetime, without doubt - and that's from somebody who publicly called for him to go a couple of months ago. How many other managers in our history have relegated us twice? How many have achieved a lower points total at tier three level? Your definition of "success" is dubious at best.
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twolegs
Richard Prokas
Posts: 45
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Post by twolegs on Apr 17, 2024 18:41:11 GMT
Who was manager when we were relegated in 95-96? 😊
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Post by crunchblue on Apr 17, 2024 18:41:52 GMT
One trophy for Simpson? 🤨
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Apr 17, 2024 18:48:20 GMT
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Post by pigletphoenix on Apr 17, 2024 18:48:20 GMT
One trophy for Simpson? 🤨 As our manager.
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Apr 17, 2024 18:48:46 GMT
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Post by pigletphoenix on Apr 17, 2024 18:48:46 GMT
Who was manager when we were relegated in 95-96? 😊 Good point
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Post by moonie on Apr 17, 2024 18:49:12 GMT
Mervyn Day won a single promotion. Mick Wadsworth won a single promotion. John Ward bottled promotion. Neil McDonald's tactics away from home bottled a playoff berth. Wadsworth - one trophy; Day - one trophy. McDonald and Ward kept us in tier three with the team that Simpson built. They should have got us into the playoffs and promotion, respectively. Greggy oversaw our fall from playoff contenders to strugglers. Simpson - one relegation of his own accord, the other was the delayed but inevitable consequence of years of absolute chaos. He's won 3 times as many promotions with us than any other on your list, and more than the rest combined. Most successful Carlisle United manager in my lifetime, without doubt - and that's from somebody who publicly called for him to go a couple of months ago. How many other managers in our history have relegated us twice? How many have achieved a lower points total at tier three level? Your definition of "success" is dubious at best. Simpson's previous relegation was the product of years of absolute madness, culminating in the Roddy Collins debacle. He inherited a side with a losing mentality, and very nearly worked a miracle with it. Context, as always, is king. Speaking of which, how many managers in the past 50 years have promoted us thrice? I'm not saying this year has been a success, as you well know. That's why I called for change a couple of months ago. But I made my argument for change without resorting to distorting history, and I gave (and continue to give) due acknowledgement to the success we have enjoyed under Paul Simpson. Your argument is massively diluted by the spin you put on it.
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Post by crunchblue on Apr 17, 2024 18:50:22 GMT
One trophy for Simpson? 🤨 As our manager. 🤨
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Apr 17, 2024 18:52:12 GMT
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Post by pigletphoenix on Apr 17, 2024 18:52:12 GMT
How is it "distorting history" to point out Simpson has relegated us twice and is our worst ever manager at tier three level?
Facts are facts.
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Apr 17, 2024 18:52:34 GMT
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Post by pigletphoenix on Apr 17, 2024 18:52:34 GMT
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