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Post by cufcaussiebranch on Nov 21, 2023 2:11:12 GMT
That '86 tournament started awfully with a defeat to Portugal(?) then we did well.
What irks me is, people look back at Bobby Robson (who was a great man, never mind manager) with rose tinted glasses. He was hounded by the press, and a large part of our fan base, prior to that tournament and again in '88. Personally, I see a lot of similarities with Robson and Southgate and it won't surprise me in the slightest if he also becomes a Sir in the not too distant future.
I'd settle for boring football and a trophy. Not saying Southgate will deliver but he's certainly getting a lot closer than a lot of sold great managers before him!
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Post by pigletphoenix on Nov 21, 2023 6:53:31 GMT
I'd rather have a team play football the right way and lose than a team which bores the life out of you and wins a trophy.
At the minute we have neither.
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Post by moonie on Nov 21, 2023 7:50:17 GMT
I’d happily settle for boring football and a trophy, but Southgate has had his best crack at it IMO. I see no signs that we are still moving forward under his leadership.
I’d love him to prove me wrong, but I think next summer will be the end of him.
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Post by bstandbob on Nov 21, 2023 8:45:49 GMT
I have complete apathy towards international football atm, will probably get in the spirit a bit more once the Euros start next summer but the whole qualifying part needs a rethink, the football is dull, disrupts the domestic game and I honesty would rather go and watch a game at the sheepmount. Recon it's a certainty that Southgate will leave after next summer. I have always defended him but actually after those 2 games I think we should get shot and get someone in who will really inspire the team and get them playing to their potential. Someone with a bit of fire in there belly and some personality, even if it was just for the Euros.
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Post by topstepwhinger on Nov 21, 2023 10:13:23 GMT
Boring football has its place if it gets you trophies and you have the players to kill off a game when needs be. Unfortunately we just don't have the players or the mentality to do that. Our strengths lie in the attacking side of the game and playing at a decent tempo. Once we drop off the pace we all know what can and does happen. How many games have we led under Southgate, drop the pace and end up being pegged back. Southgate's negativity and cautious nature has already cost us 2 tournaments and will probably cost us another next summer. One plus last night was Rico Lewis who looked very comfortable on the ball, but other than Foden that was about it. Maguire should take up walking football, TAA is not a midfield player, Phillips is not good enough and hopefully we have seen the last of Henderson. Unfortunately we are probably stuck with Southgate until we get knocked out in the quarters next Summer.
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Post by blencathra on Nov 21, 2023 10:47:23 GMT
When we move the ball quickly and play at a high tempo England look as good as anyone in Europe. Unfortunately this doesn't happen often enough and instead ponderous sideways passing is the norm. On paper, Southgate's record as England manager is second only to Ramsey but IMO he has underachieved with the talents at his disposal.
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Post by seabird on Nov 21, 2023 11:16:23 GMT
Southgate quoted that we played well and he learned a lot from the game. We certainly didn’t play well in general. The thing he should have learned is that we have several players that are ether not good enough or way off due to not playing enough top class football.. We have probably Kane and Bellingham who are at the top table,a lot of work to do if we are to go far in the tournament next year.
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Post by topstepwhinger on Nov 21, 2023 13:47:57 GMT
I would add Foden to Kane and Bellingham, as I think he would get in most if not all other national teams.
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Post by munchymagic on Nov 21, 2023 15:47:39 GMT
I was obsessed with international football when I was younger, heartbroken when we failed in competitions and the likes.
Nowadays I will still watch the competitions and enjoy them but not in the same way - I get a little disappointed when we get knocked out and I want them to win but I'm not that bothered really.
This hasn't happened to me with Carlisle United though, I would still be ecstatic if we won that crap cup.
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Post by dstander on Nov 21, 2023 17:11:19 GMT
Keep on hearing about the talent Southgate has at his disposal - where is it exactly? Too many seem to believe in their own hype. Walker, Stones and Bellingham have all emerged as genuine world-class candidates the last couple of years but certainly weren’t before that. Grealish simply hasn’t done it at international level and Foden is an enigma for me, until he can settle in a particular position he remains unconvincing. Kane is the obvious constant world-class performer under Southgate, the rest seem to come and go without much consistency. We’ve had far better crops of players in my lifetime and never been to the levels Southgate has got his squads to. I agree, it’s time to win something now, but even if we do fall short next summer Southgate’s tenure will still be classed as a success in relation to the national team’s history.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2023 17:44:46 GMT
, but even if we do fall short next summer Southgate’s tenure will still be classed as a success in relation to the national team’s history. and that is exactly what is wrong with England. You go on about Foden again but again I put it to that at this stage of his career he has played over 100 more games than Paul Scholes had and you want him to nail down a position and more consitency, the guy is playing in the best team in the UK if not Europe. He has played in all 12 league games this season, you lambast him for having the skill to play anywhere across the attacking spectrum, even so much as being a false 9 along with LW, RW, AM and no doubt box to box. The team should be built around him but the waistcoated fool can't squeeze him into any of those positions on a regualr basis. He still plays Maguire and that is just unforgivable, he is shit, utter shit, Hendwerson still sniffing around the squad despite playing for a farmer league. Saka is a great player, Stones if only he would stay fit is one of the worlds best defenders and the ability to move seemlessly around the midfield an added bonus if Southgate was brave enough. You mentioned Walker who is defying his age and not losing any of his speed and Bellingham is just a wonderful talent and seemingly also able to play upfront now lol Grealish has the talent but needs to show it for both club and country. Palmer and Rico Lewis are stars of the future, especially the latter who again can play LB, RB, DM and looking likely to soon add AM under his belt but you will just say he needs to nail a position down, no doubt Rice is a decent DM with improvement still to come TAA is awful, he flatters with a hollywood pass or two but he is no midfielder and certainly no RB Phillips, needs to move away from City and try and cement a place at Newcastle or a Villa and get back to doing what he was doing for Leeds but currently he shouldn't be anywhere near an England spot. We are short of a WC keeper, CB and Striker
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Post by dstander on Nov 21, 2023 19:57:41 GMT
I’m not talking about club form at all, I’m talking about consistency for England, Foden and Grealish don’t have any unfortunately. I don’t think Foden is half as effective centrally as he is out wide drifting in (as we witnessed last night) and he only plays there time to time for City due to injuries. Brilliant footballer, and although he plays regular for City he always seems to be understudy to whoever is missing - De Bruyne, Silva, etc. hence why I feel he needs to nail down a particular position. How can you build a team around a player who’s in a different position every game?
Maguire’s been great for England, forming a decent partnership with Stones, but his time’s probably up. The problem being there’s not a plethora of options waiting in the wings to replace him, even more so with Stones out. Southgate’s said numerous times about Henderson’s value as an experienced squad member, something Klopp backed him up on. Quite rightly he’s no longer a first choice but he’s still valuable. Rice is decent but nothing more, Phillips the same.
Stones and Walker were simply plodding along at club and international level up until the last year or so and both could now class themselves as world class. Along with Bellingham, it’s only recently that Southgate was able to call upon such quality.
In a nutshell, Southgate’s never really had world class players to call upon in tournament football, unlike what some may have you believe. Maybe now, with players emerging, he has and that’s why it’s time to win a tournament.
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Post by cufcaussiebranch on Nov 21, 2023 21:38:09 GMT
So which countries have reached this footballing Nirvana that you expect England to play every single game?
Which country do you consistently look at and think that's how we should play?
Which England managers have achieved what they should have with the talent at their disposal?
Yep, no answers.
I'm not saying Southgate is the best, but he has done a great job and I doubt there would be many that could do better. I think he'll go after the Euros, too. Even if god forbid, we were to win them.
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Post by moonie on Dec 2, 2023 17:20:37 GMT
Draw for the finals about to commence...
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Post by moonie on Dec 2, 2023 17:51:29 GMT
Group A: Germany, Hungary, Scotland, Switzerland
Group B: Spain, Albania, Croatia, Italy
Group C: England, Denmark, Slovenia, Serbia
Group D: France, Austria, Netherlands, Winner of playoff A (Poland/Wales/Finland/Estonia)
Group E: Belgium, Romania, Slovakia, Winner of playoff B (Israel/Bosnia/Ukraine/Iceland)
Group F: Portugal, Turkey, Czech Republic, Winner of playoff C (Georgia/Greece/Kazakhstan/Luxembourg)
Opening game will be Germany vs Scotland.
England will play Serbia 1st (Sunday, 16 June @8pm), Denmark 2nd (Thursday, 20 June @5pm) and Slovenia 3rd (Tuesday, 25 June @8pm)
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